Breastfeeding Unplugged
Breastfeeding Unplugged
Innovations in Breastfeeding
Hello Mommas and Mommas-To-Be! This week on the podcast we’re talking about what we like to call “Breastfeeding 2.0”.
Have you ever wondered why motherhood in general and breastfeeding, in particular, attracts so many wives’ tales and generational remedies? From cabbage leaves to drinking beer, many of the “helpful hints” we get for breastfeeding is actually age-old advice passed down through the decades. In a world that is completely dictated by technology, this seems a bit at odds with where we are as a society today. Have there really been no advancements in breastfeeding? Is the advice passed down from our mothers, grandmothers, and aunties still sage? Today we are going to find out.
With us on the show today is Adriana Vazquez, Co-Founder & CEO of Lilu (Lee-Lou), a company that has created the first-ever massaging pump bra. Adriana’s long list of credentials includes being recognized as one of the top 30 Femtech Healthcare Influencers of the Year, and the patent for her bra nabbed her Philadelphia’s Invention of the Year in 2019. While most of the breastfeeding world still relies on age-old wisdom, Adriana is leading the charge to bring technology into motherhood which makes life a heck of a lot easier for those who want to breastfeed successfully while working, parenting, and managing our increasingly busy day-to-day lives.
We look forward to having you with us for today's show!
[Intro] Breastfeeding Unplugged. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome mamas and mamas-to-be. A podcast dedicated to helping moms navigate their way through the tricky world of breastfeeding. Breastfeeding Unplugged. Breastfeeding Unplugged. Hello there mamas and mamas-to-be. We are so thrilled to have you here for today's podcast. I am your host Amanda Gorman of Nest Collaborative. And this week, we're talking about what we like to call breastfeeding 2.0. I don't know about you but when I got pregnant with my first child, I got a ton of advice. Some of it was great. And a lot of it was completely silly. And much of what people had to say seemed a bit outdated. I came to discover that pretty much any of my fellow friends in my circle who had ever given birth had something to say. But instead of actual knowledge, a lot of the advice I was getting was more of a projection of their own personal experiences. And while that definitely was sometimes helpful, I often found it more confusing than anything, especially when it came to breastfeeding. So I wondered, have you ever wondered why motherhood in general and breastfeeding in particular attracts so many wives tales and generational remedies? You know, from cabbage leaves to drinking beer, many of those helpful hints that we get for breastfeeding is actually age old advice passed down through the decades. In a world that's completely dictated by technology, now this seems a bit at odds with what we are as a society today. Have there really been no advancements in breastfeeding? Is this advice passed down from our moms, our grandmothers and our auntie's actually still sage? Today we are going to find out so with me here is Adriana Vazquez. She is a cofounder and CEO of Lilu, which is a company that has created the first ever massaging pump bra. Adriana's long list of credentials includes being recognized as one of the top 30 femtech healthcare influencers of the year. And the patent for her bra nabbed her Philadelphia's Invention of the Year in just 2019. While most of the breastfeeding world still relies on age old wisdom, she is leading the charge to bring technology into motherhood, which makes life a heck of a lot easier for those of us who want to breastfeed successfully while working, parenting and managing our increasingly busy day-to-day lives. So Adriana, welcome. I'm very thrilled to have you here on the show today.
Adriana Vazquez:Thank you so much, Amanda, I'm so thrilled to be sure as well. And as always, I'd love to catch up with you and what you've been doing and what Nest Collaborative is doing for all the moms out there. But as you know, this is a topic that is so exciting for me. So thanks so much for having me here today.
Amanda Gorman:No, I love it. So a little funny backstory, Adriana and I met several years ago in the great city of New York, at an event for female founders. And it was this huge event with all of these burgeoning women who had founded or were in the process of founding companies. And it was at Google, and there were hundreds of women there. And I was quite intimidated and wasn't even sure if I was supposed to be there or not. And just was networking around and kind of meeting people and sharing with them what I did. And they said to me, well, you've got to find that Adriana. She's also in the boob business. And and we kind of stuck out to every one of these, you know, two female founders who were in the same business of breastfeeding. But I can't say how actually relieved I was that day to actually find someone who seemed to be speaking my language. So she and I have, you know, kept in touch and kept tabs on what we've been doing in this world of, you know, finding a business and making it run and all the ins and outs. And so it's been a great resource to have just to check in, like you said, but I'm so thrilled to have you. So thank you. And I guess you know, what's happened since we met? I'd love to just kind of catch up.
Adriana Vazquez:Yeah, of course, I remember that day so clearly, especially now that we can't do networking in person. But it was a beautiful sunny day in the Google headquarters here in New York City. But yeah, like you said, it was such a pleasure to meet another female founder working on the important problem of how can we make it easier for new moms through technology and innovation, right to meet their breastfeeding goals. So what happened since then, we launched our first product, using the scratchpad that you already gave a little bit of an intro about, but yeah, this year has been super exciting for us. It's really just about getting the word out there. Seeing the product in the hands of 1000s of moms now, and just sharing the stories about how our innovation can make a difference for moms who are breastfeeding, but also learning, right, a lot of listening and hearing how, how can we improve? How can we be better? And where else can we possibly help? And super excited also to see that this is kind of the fastest thing in the breastfeeding and breast pumping space. So like, because both you and I have been in here in this space for for a couple years now. But I'm sure you've also seen that, I think right with what's happening with COVID and the pandemic in one of the potential silver linings of all of this is that I think there's been a little bit more of a conversation right around how can we be there for moms, especially when a lot of the things that used to be in-person now have to be remote in some way or another? So I think it's a, it's an interesting time. But also what a challenging time, right, to become a new mom and a new parent. But I think this is where we get to hopefully rise up to that challenge, and see how we can be of help to some of our different innovations.
Amanda Gorman:Yeah, absolutely. Certainly rising to the occasion this year. I'd love to know, you know, in terms of technology, why do you think breastfeeding is taken such a backseat when it comes to innovation? Yeah.
Adriana Vazquez:Yeah. I mean, that's such a great and very complex question. It has so many layers. I would say that if we if take a look at the, you know, cultural shift over the past few decades, one big thing that happened, right, is that I mean, in the 70s, when technology was on the rise, there was like the rise of Silicon Valley and all that. Breastfeeding was not the norm back then. I think that in many ways, right, because many moms were feeding formula. And that's, you know, has many, both positive and some interesting consequences, but one of them was that there were so many women in the workforce, either because they wanted to, or in some cases, they had no other option. But because of that, I think that again, what happened, right, we had technology innovation, happening at an immense fast pace. I think, again, breastfeeding has taken kind of a backseat in society at some point. And suddenly, that clicked. That stuff started slipping in, you know, by the 90s, 2000s, and today, it's kind of reversed, right? We have so many more moms initiating breastfeeding than before. But we still have women in the workforce. So there's kind of these moms are put in, you know, between a hard rock and a place, you know, we're told about all the wonderful benefits of breastfeeding. And yet the reality and the context in which women are breastfeeding today, right? It's, you know, you're juggling career, you're juggling all these, all these things. And technology in the meantime, has kind of just focused on everything but women's health It feels like. And, again, I think it's a super complex and super interesting question. And so I think one thing is cultural norms, and regulation and support for moms to be able to breastfeed and pump in the work place, left behind so many things. But we're here to talk about technology, right? So I think the other big thing that happened in the technology world, is that a lot of the tech products were being designed, built and funded by men. So we need more women to be in STEM, so that more women can be innovating. That's not the only way. We also need to have more female founders, right, like being funded. And more women funding these innovations. I think, again, in the technology world, right, you need so many pieces and so many parts of of this equation to be moving in the same direction before we are going to see more and more of these changes. But at least from the technology world, I think that there's a conversation that has started and it's not going to stop, right, the fact that we need more innovation for women by women. And that when it comes to women's health, like maternal health is such an important part of it and I think that's, again, one of the reasons why in the last, what it's been like, five years perhaps, we're finally seeing breastfeeding innovation and funding going into it.
Amanda Gorman:Absolutely. And let's hope that continues. But you're right, you make a really good point, you know, we do, you're right, we have the most, you know, highest initiation rates that we've seen in decades for breastfeeding. And so, of course, certainly 40 years ago, when women weren't as apt to choose to breastfeed, you know, the focus was on Atari and microwaves. But there's been a kind of a lag, I mean, we've we've now upped the ante in terms of breastfeeding women. So it is certainly overdue for some, some innovations. So you're doing it, you know, I hope we're doing it at Nest Collaborative. So I'm happy that we're in this together. But you talk about, you know, all the balance of working and being a new mom and the balance is really difficult. You know, you shared some data that 85% of moms are pumping in some capacity. So, what does pumping really look like for most women?
Adriana Vazquez:Well, it varies, so much. Like, in theory, employers are required to provide a reasonable amount of time and space to express milk as frequently as moms need to. And for up to one year, right, which is the recommendation by the American Association of Pediatrics, but I think the reality is, it's a little different, right? I think, many moms still don't have a sanitary, let alone a comfortable place, to pump comfortably. And then realistically, many moms can't find a time, right in between their work constraints. We hear often from teachers, or, like nurses and other medical professionals, or people that have, you know, to work in specific time shifts, and simply, you know, they can't accommodate pumping, you know, every two to three or three to four hours. As, in reality, they should be able to, and then there's a lot of employers which are also exempt, like, I think I was checking. What are the latest guidelines, and if you have less than 60 employees you are exempt from this rule. So I think like a lot of moms that are working at smaller companies or you know, it's just not, it's just not a reality. So I think moms have to... and I think this is also another reason why a lot of maybe sometimes innovation doesn't happen as fast as we would like it to. It's because I think also as women, we try to hack our way to a solution. And just find, you know, we've heard from so many moms, and I'm sure you as well, right, that are pumping in bathrooms or in classes, or just, you know, in planes, and all these all these places where really, you shouldn't but that's the reality, like, that's what we women do, right? We find ways to solve our, our different challenges. But it just shouldn't be that difficult, right? I mean, I think we should always go by, I mean, the research is pretty clear, right? For a mom to maintain a healthy milk supply, she has to pump, like [unknown] see that her baby feeding time? Otherwise, you know, we're not setting up women for success. And I think that's what employers that's what, that's what regulator, that's what other people that have it in their hands, to make it easier for mom to understand, right? Because one thing is, again, what we say, you know, in theory, yes, like a lot of progress has been done for, you know, on that regulatory standpoint, or, in theory, again, like we are really trying to make an interesting technology. But it all goes back to yeah, like, how does that reality, how does that reality look like? And how does it look like? I mean, like you're asking, like, for most women, and the reality is that it's, it's, it's still not easy?
Amanda Gorman:No, it's certainly not. Do you think that most women who are pumping are actually doing it the right way?
Adriana Vazquez:That's a very interesting question. I mean, in many ways, you wonder like, is there is there a right way or not like something that I personally tell or share with people is that pumps work fairly differently than how a healthy baby would breastfeed. So even to begin with, right that's knowing that there's going to be a difference. And is there a right way or not? I think the quote unquote, what should happen is that, for instance, it shouldn't be uncomfortable or it shouldn't be, like painful and the fact that a lot of moms end up, for instance, in our research, we hear that a lot of moms use the highest setting of their pump suction in almost every pump session and some percent actually have such a high, powerful suction that is much stronger than, you know, like, like the newborn, for instance, right? On the woman's body and the breast shouldn't or, I'm not really, shouldn't be taking that, you know, high suction every single time that moms are pumping, and yet moms do because you expect again, this technology to do the work for you, and if it's the setting on the pump right where you is imagine you're like, "Okay, I'm trying to get as much milk as possible and also as fast as possible, because I'm super time constrained." So it's such a natural, kind of like, thing to try to do. But the reality is that if, you know, instead of that high pump suction setting, it was the baby breastfeeding, the baby wouldn't use that high suction because the baby would also be kneading at the breast and be warm and, and on top of, you know, all of the physical stimulus. There's also like, the emotional and hormonal stimulus thats happening. Going that way, you know, it is almost like, what does it mean to some? What's the right or wrong way to pump, because once again, in that things are fairly lacking, and fairly far behind where they could be. But I do think that, for instance, for a month that's asking that question, of course, we have, as we always say, and I am sure you too right, always check with, you know, if you can with an IBCLC, or some other medical professional, but you should also ask the mom, you know, like, hopefully, follow certain guidelines, right? And if you feel that its too much or if you're in pain, and it's constant pain, or you notice some injury and on your breast know that it's probably not working out the right way. It could be something with the pump thats not right, it could be that the face of the flange is not right. There's so many things. But I think that it's a common question. But I think that also speaks about how, again, lacking and far behind pump technology can be, because in an ideal world, it's something that you could just put on your breast and it does this work the right way and you don't even have to think about,"Am I doing this right or wrong?" But I think that's a rule of thumb, if you feel that something's not right, always like, kind of like trust your instinct, trust your gut, and seek help, because help is out there. Right. So on your platform, Nest Collaborative, there's somebody there that can probably help you answer that question.
Amanda Gorman:Absolutely. You know, and we know that most women don't make it to six months, which is really the minimum recommendation from the American Academy of Pediatrics, like you mentioned. And we know that so many women don't make it. In fact, I think it's like 70%, don't make it to that minimum and end up even just quitting their breastfeeding journey early. Why do you think that is?
Adriana Vazquez:I mean, it's, it's so many moms feel so guilty when that kind of decision. It's sometimes that decision isn't even made by them, that decision is made for them, right, again, because of all the difficulties and challenges that they face, especially when they have to return to work, I think. I mean, that's one big thing right. One is we see a massive drop off, you know, in the in the weeks or, or shortly after returning to work because, you know, babies are still growing, having some growth spurts, but now suddenly, you're away from the baby. And again, all that I mean, breastfeeding and lactation, right, it's such a, when it's going well, it's such a virtuous cycle, but you need to feed off from the emptying the breast to all the cues of having your baby caused by the hormonal shifts in the body. So when you abruptly take that away, as happens with very short maternity leave policy, say, again, you're just not being set up for success. And I think, okay, that's, that's a very big reason for some of the high attrition rates. And it shouldn't, or doesn't have to be that way. Again, the more that the support system is there, again, if there was better access to pump breaks, if the technology was better, if you had support in those critical time periods, I think probably a lot of moms, you know, like, you kind of get sent back from the hospital without necessarily like all the guidance or you don't even know what questions to ask before. You actually have to go through through the motions and I think that's another critical thing that's missing, right? Like having that access when moms need it. And if those, all of those different parts of the equation are not there, I think it's really not a surprise that so many moms despite those, again, high attrition rates, which shows that moms really do want to breastfeed. But I mean, it's a, you're fighting this uphill battle and, you know, with others, all these other things that are, you know, competing for a mom's time, for her attention. And if you add this complexity to something like breastfeeding, you're just making the life of a new mom, so much more difficult than I actually, you know, think that unless we fundamentally fix some of those things, even, you know, as much as we improve pumping technology and as much as they want to see improving, and we need all those pieces of equation to be in place, so that more mom can reach the recommended six months of exclusive breastfeeding and 12 months or beyond right of breastfeeding, because that's the other thing, right? The World Health Organization actually recommends two years, but we're so far from meeting that in the US that, you know, let's take it one step at a time. But the reality is that more moms should be able to breastfeed until they decide that they're ready to wean, as opposed to what's happening now that moms I think are quitting because it's just, it's just so hard to keep up with it.
Amanda Gorman:Yeah. Well, no doubt with that. You know, one of the key components you've discovered is massage. Massaging the breast in conjunction with pumping. What have you learned?
Adriana Vazquez:Yeah, well, we've done quite a bit of research on this, right. And that's why we started with this as our first product. We decided to automate breast massage, or maybe if it's enough to get the breast massage while pumping, because research shows that when moms massage their breasts while pumping, they can get around 50% more milk expressed. And this really matters, obviously, kind of at the first level, right. It's okay, great, you get more milk in that one session. But it really isn't just about one specific session, it's about the long term milk production, right? Going back to again how, you know, production works, right, you have to, after the initial initiation of milk production afterwards, it's really just driven by the more you express, the more milk you produce right. And you have to keep that up. Or otherwise there counter is true, right? Otherwise, that's how weaning begins and what happens currently with so many moms using breast pumps. And going back to how they don't always work, or especially again, they don't closely mimic how a healthy baby breastfeeds is that a lot of milk is left in the breast if you're only using the suction from the breast pump. So massage is basically adding kind of that complimentary, you know, stimulus, that is helping milk flow through the milk ducts. Right, it's closer to the nipple, and that can be collected by this suction. But again, it's also actually the physical stimulus in the breast, right, that's triggering other hormonal processes. But I guess there's other papers, you know, I actually, I really want to use research as the foundation for a lot of the technology or products we will produce. And because I think that otherwise, you know, if we don't base things on research, right, you say there's always like, like grandma recipes. Their could actually be reasons why some of these home remedies, quote unquote, like actually do work, but we need to make sure that we're putting out things that there's, again, a good solid, scientific and research foundation on. And the other thing, though, again, that we found is that okay, there's, there's research out there, but it's something that for many years, and many decades and centuries, even have been used in other cultures, like in, in Asia, like breast massage is actually very common. So I think we want to kind of have this combination of, okay, we know that it's proven to work by research, but again, there is evidence, anecdotal and just from historically, right. Were breast massage is almost like this very intuitive thing that many moms eventually might discover, right? Like, especially when you have some pain in the breast or milk, like it's plugged in a duct in the breast, like you massage that part on the breast, and you will see the immediate effect. So it was a mixture of that, you know why we decided to focus on massage. And the fact that again, that when we look at breast pumps that only use suction and they need, they need so much more of a stimulus. And kind of, it's no longer one of our taglines. But we, we still believe it's strongly one of our key pillar, you know, we want to make breast pumping more closely resemble natural breastfeeding, because otherwise, right, again, like with breast pumps being just like, cold machines, it's just not gonna be great, we would never obviously gonna get wonderful results as a healthy little human baby, because humans are amazing and miraculous the way we work great. But, but at least, you know, we can learn from nature, and incorporate what's out there in nature, and bring that into pumping technology. So that's why we focus on the facts, research, anecdotal evidence. And, and it's something that many moms already do.
Amanda Gorman:Yeah, no, and you've done such a great job at it, taking the research that's out there, and inventing something that we need and works. So tell me, how did it even come about that you came to develop Lilu?
Adriana Vazquez:Yeah, so um, I always thought technology has this way to make people's lives easier or bring joy into people's lives or improve our health. And then I think at some point, right, as I started to see friends, colleagues, professors, as I always say, like, I mean, I know, some people that are like amazing designers or exceptional engineers. And when they had to breastfeed and breast pump, they still were so disappointed and struggled with the technology and I, the other thing that I noticed is that a lot of moms feel that they're kind of struggling or suffering alone, and that they're the only ones that are having difficulty. And in reality, the technology is failing them. So I think I had this kind of chance to just connected to you like, here I am, this like, woman in STEM that loves technology. And then I realized, again, how women tell, like tech has fallen so far behind. I think that the more I talk to, to friends, the more I talk to moms and the more that more women opened up and shared their stories. And, again, I found this recurring theme of like, you know, feeling guilty feeling like, you know, they, they were failing themselves, like they were failing their babies, and they were failing themselves. And it's like, no, it's not you. Like, this is actually one of the things it's like, it's, "Oh it's me." It's like, no, it's not you. It's the technology for sure. So I wanted to use my skills to make a difference there. Like, again, I do believe it's a very complex problem that goes beyond technology, we need better education, and we need better regulations, to support moms. But the one piece of the puzzle that I can move is technology. So I decided that I wanted to spend my career, or at least you know the time that I have in the near future, to innovate for moms, to innovate for maternal and postnatal health. And I feel that with breastfeeding and breast pumping, it's just the beginning. And you've probably seen this as well, through the work you do with Nest. But, you know, in the US, right, we have such high rates of postpartum depression and postpartum mood disorders. And I actually think it's all kind of linked, right. When we see a mom that is struggling to produce enough milk for their baby, and she comes to us, you know, we have this like chat on our website. And you'll be surprised what mom's write there, you know, like, they're asking for help. And so for us they are asking for help with for product, but many times you can really see that there's much more in their minds and that they're really struggling and they're really suffering and I think that um, I think that's what that's what drives me. Right? I feel like Okay, why is it that we have like moms asking for help, you know, breastfeeding support or breastfeed or just like encouragement even sometimes on chat for our websites, right, that's selling a product. And I think, for me, that speaks so much about how much more work we need to do. And, you know, I know, we're contributing in the one way we can, which is through physical product innovation. But I really see as part of what we're doing and building, you know, to have these very important conversations, important conversations that we're having, you know, with other founders in certain competitions that, when and if the time is right, you know, maybe we can have with policymakers, because women, and that's like we say, like moms deserve more, and they deserve more support, they deserve more innovation, they deserve better technology. And that's really what, what drives me.
Amanda Gorman:No, it's wonderful. You know, you're doing great things. And I know you'll do more. So I'm curious, what's next for Lilu?
Adriana Vazquez:What's next is, we would absolutely love to continue to develop the portfolio of products. So right now we have the Lilu massage bra, we actually are very close to launching the second generation of the bra, which simply is going to be an improved and we're extending sizes for the bra, which is really exciting, because that's one of the number one things that moms ask us, but hopefully after, I think there's other areas in like breastfeeding and breast pumping that will need to be addressed, we are kind of super laser focused on alleviating pain, again, because I feel this physical pain, often, you know, if it doesn't directly feed into some of the anxiety or emotional pain that sometimes moms experience, it doesn't help. Right, so we want to really tackle some of the different areas that are contributing to some of the physical pain that moms experience, while breath pumping. And the second thing would be, to... yeah, to I mean, continue to be a resource for moms, and to continue to hopefully also support and connect with other companies that are in the space so that we can, you know, support each other, like one of the big things that we're also launching is a resource page for moms. Right. So, for instance, connecting them to the lactation consultation services that they can, they can get through Nest Collaborative or you know, another partner that offers like fitness and postpartum, you know, classes like to strengthen pelvic floor and all of that. So those are some of the thing that we're excited about, the more that we can be a connector of the different resources and kind of continue to help moms build that support network. And while we, yes, continue to expand our product line.
Amanda Gorman:That's so great for you to offer all those ancillary resources, because it's a lot easier for moms when they just have one place to go one web page. And so it's it's great that you're adding in those I love that. But really, you know, Adriana, it's been such a pleasure having you today. And I feel like we have so far to go when it comes to applying technology to motherhood. But women like you are really leading the charge. And it's so nice to see. You know, because mom, mom-hood is really so hard. And we've become just too good at just pushing through the obstacles without really batting an eyelash. So I'm super excited to see you know what's coming down the line for you and for Lilu and love how the work you're doing is just truly changing breastfeeding culture for for moms everywhere. And for our listeners who want to learn more about Lilu, where where can they connect with you? What's the website?
Adriana Vazquez:They can find us at wearlilu.com that's W-E-A-R-L-I-L-U. And yeah, no, we were so thrilled also but I think we've already touched about all the different innovations that are happening but beyond Lilu, right, we also want to be a connector and offer moms some of the different resources. And I think I think the future is bright, right? We didn't really get to cover it but moms now have the options of wearable prong or milk analytics and there's a lot of futuristic innovation happening. But the other key area that's really seeing innovation is yeah, I mean all everything that can offer moms, convenience and support. So were mom can connect now to their lactation consultants and telehealth and telemedicine. There's so many exciting things happening in the space. And, yes, hopefully can count Lilu as one more tool in their toolkit. And absolutely, if anybody wants to learn more, they can visit us at our website.
Amanda Gorman:Awesome. Well, it sounds like you certainly are being the advocate you you've talked about wanting to be so thank you so much. I really appreciate you being here with us today. And so you know in in our final outgoing I want to just tell those mamas and mamas-to-be that, that that's what we have for you today, but I know I learned a ton and I hope you did too. And as always, we really want to be covering the topics that you most want to hear about. So if you have a question or an idea in mind, please don't be shy. Visit us on our website or send us a message on Facebook or Instagram. So until then next week, it's me Amanda wishing you very well on your breastfeeding journey. Boo bye. [Outro] Breastfeeding Unplugged. Breastfeeding unplugged.